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Rasism impotriva romanilor - sa actionam!

Discussion in 'in Marea Britanie' started by crysya, May 30, 2009.

  1. kitten

    kitten New Member

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    cata246 a scris:
    Votantii sloveni reprezinta - EVIDENT - Slovenia. Ce facem acum, ne contrazicem numai de dragul de a ne contrazice?

    Trimite un e-mail la BBC si spune-le ca vrei poza inapoi.

    Ai schimbat subiectul. Mai citeste o data propozitia ta, la care am raspuns.

    (Hai sa ne oprim aici, te rog.)
     
  2. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    crismarten a scris:
    cata246 a scris:
    Mai oameni buni, voi chiar credeti in ceea ce spuneti??
    Nu vreti chiar deloc sa va scuturati de mentalitatea asta de "ce rost are, oricum nu se schimba nimic"? Ce-ar trebui sa faca ambasadorul sau ministrul de externe? Sa ia atitudine in mod oficial, sa adopte o pozitie ferma, demna. Face parte din atributiile postului, post platit din cate stiu eu din bani de la buget(asta presupunand ca nu sunt platiti mai bine de catre alte state). De ce sa trimitem scrisori si plangeri? Sa le spunem prin asta celor din jurul nostru: "Heloooo, suntem si noi pe'aici, si nu permitem sa fim calcati in picioare". Apropo de calcat in picioare, comparati motto-ul scotienilor "Nemo me impune lacessit" cu imnul Romaniei "Desteapta-te romane". Chiar suntem un neam de adormiti si de fiecare data cand ne trezim o facem doar pt a ne intoarce pe partea cealalta?
     
  3. Daniele

    Daniele New Member

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    Negrutza multumim din tot sufletul pt scrisoarea care ai trimis-o. De asemenea si lui Kitten pt mesajul trimis la BBC. B)
    Voiam sa te rog Negrutza sa ne informezi si pe noi in legatura cu raspunsul pe care il vei primi, in legatura cu scrisoarea asta. Eu chiar aveam de gand sa redactez una dupa ce termin cu prezentarea proiectului meu final.
    Eu am un super plan in legatura cu scrisoarea asta. In momentul in care primim raspunsul - daca nu se ia o atitudine adecvata, intr-o stransa relatie cu gravitatea problemei - eu voi incerca sa contactez presa din Romania pt a face publica gravitatea situatiei in legatura cu imaginea Romaniei aici. Si cred ca sunt posturi care abia asteapta ceva de genul asta - si romanii din tara sunt nemultumiti de lucrul asta. Si daca cei care sunt platiti sa faca lucrul asta nu o fac atunci trebuie sa suporte consecintele.
     
  4. cata246

    cata246 New Member

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    Ai dreptate.
    Ce nu inteleg eu este de unde aceasta "oripilare" vizavi de fotografia respectiva.
    O fi fost femeia aia tiganca sau nu,era ea romanca?sunt si astia " ai nostri" cum s-ar zice?

    deci acum,ea ar putea contacta bbc-ul sa intrebe de ce i-a fost scoasa poza de pe site.

    Inchei,incercand sa concluzionez-nu pot fi multumit evident cand astfel fe foto sunt publicate ca reprezentand o intreaga natie,dar,in acelasi timp tre sa intelegem ca si ei sunt tot de acolo de unde venim noi.

    Sarind in sus oripilati cand suntem numiti "tigani" nu stiu cat ajuta.Incercand insa sa le arat celor ce cred acest lucru,ce fel de "tigan roman" sunt,poate face o diferenta.

    Marea noastra majoritate (aici pe forum) vorbeste din prisma "tiganilor" ca o entitate separata de conceptul de roman.Dar ei sunt totusi romani.Vrem nu vrem,asta e.
    Si eu nu-i cunosc doar de la "distanta"-ziare/filme/stiri,ci si din viata de zi cu zi cand eram in RO.
     
  5. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    Era vorba de COSTUM NATIONAL. Ti se pare relevant? Mie nu.
     
  6. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    cata246 a scris:
    Cata, era acea femeie reprezentativa pt poporul roman? Erau straiele ei reprezentative pt portul traditional romanesc? Poate n-ai observat dar imaginile alea faceau parte dintr-un joc: sa identifici tara in functie de portul popular, de anumite particularitati.

    Si ei sunt ai nostri, dar si ungurii au tiganii lor, si slovacii... de ce nu apar si tiganii unguri in straie ponosite in poze? De ce apare un mandru ungur plesnind de sanatate, imbracat tantos in uniforma militara? De ce in celelalte fotografii oamenii par spalati, civilizati, iar pt Romania e singura poza care sugereaza faptul ca romanii traiesc in mizerie?

    Daca nu sari in sus "oripilat" si nu iei atitudine, s-ar putea sa fii deja catalogat inainte sa ti se mai ofere ocazia sa arati ce fel de om esti.
     
  7. bivo

    bivo New Member

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    Hello ,

    Recunosc ca si eu am trimis o sesizare celor de la BBC si vad ca au scos poza respectiva...Da eu m-am simtit ofensat , cum au putut ca intr-o colectie de fotografii deosebite , ale celor participanti la alegeriile europene sa insereze o astfel de poza ? Personal nu am nimic cu cei de etnie rroma , dar poza chiar nu isi avea rostul , ei faceau referire ca reprezinta costum traditional romanesc...Asa ceva e inacceptabil...Ma bucur ca au luat o decize buna , daca chiar noi nu aveam dreptate ,de ce au mai scos poza ?! E evident ca de fapt poza avea un alt scop , ba chiar spuneau ca este luata intr-o tara nou aderata la EU , si steagul Romaniei pus in spatele ei , sunt sigur ca a fost un scop al fotografiei , a fost prea bine realizata din toate punctele de vedere...

    Toate cele bune ,

    Bivo
     
  8. Daniele

    Daniele New Member

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  9. cata246

    cata246 New Member

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    Mea culpa,


    trezit din somn,nu am citit totul exact,imi cer scuze deci,eu sustineam ideea de a nu ne delimita de etnia roma ca si entitate romaneasca deasemenea,evident,costumul traditional popular romanesc nu are nimic de a face cu ce aparea in acea fotografie.


    Imi cer scuze din nou pt neintelegerile create.
     
  10. Daniele

    Daniele New Member

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  11. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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  12. negrutxa

    negrutxa New Member

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    As vrea sa adaug ca si domnul Diaconescu, Ministrul de Externe, a primit o varianta in limba romana a scrisorii mentionate mai jos.

    Vom posta pe Forum raspunsul oficial al autoritatilor.

    Intre timp, nu uitati sa ne sesizati un alt posibil caz (cu siguranta vor mai fi), sa il impartasiti AICI ca sa putem lua masuri fie individual, fie prin ReAct (v-ati inscris?! daca nu, ce asteptati? ) , fie in numele comunitatii ROMANi ONLiNE sau de ce nu, folosind toate optiunile?

    O zi buna tuturor
     
  13. bivo

    bivo New Member

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    Dragii mei ,

    Dupa cum am spus mai sus am trimis si eu mai devreme un devreme un email la BBC privind aceea fotografie...

    Iata si raspunsul lor primit pe email :

    Dear Mr.Olaru

    Thank you for your e-mail. There was no intention to cause offence by
    including this photograph. However, as the item was about traditional
    outfits, we felt in retrospect that this was not perhaps the best
    example and we have now replaced it.

    Best wishes,

    BBC News website
     
  14. taranu

    taranu New Member

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    Pacat, ar fi trebuit sa punem mana de la mana sa le trimitem cateo inregistrare fiecarui nou ales si sa-i rugam pe cei de la BBC sa o pastreze.

    Vad ca doar pe simpli muritori ia afectat :( ... nu pot sa nu ma intreb de i-ar putea determina pe mai-marii romani sa-si subtieze obrazul ?
     
  15. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    negrutxa a scris:
    Negrutxa, ele exista deja. Sa va aduc aminte de Daily Express si milioanele de romani cotropitori? Ok, se merge pe calea REACT-ului cu cazul asta, dar e de ajuns?

    Sa mai amintesc de un topic initiat de taranu pe forumul asta in legatura cu obligativitatea de a detine blue card pt un dependent, in momentul in care vrea sa obtina NINO? Se pare ca am uitat cu totii de cazul asta, chiar si initiatorul topicului...

    Deci, cu ce continuam?
     
  16. negrutxa

    negrutxa New Member

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    Prin ReAct avem posibilitatea sa trimitem direct scrisori ziarului respectiv si a editorului, si de asemenea o copie este trimisa oficiului Press Complaints Commission. Daca ne mobilizam si cateva sute de membri (ca sa nu zic mii) trimit aceste scrisori, cu siguranta atragem atentia asupra problemei. Si asta, doar cu ajutorul comunitatii online, fara ajutorul Ambasadei pe care o putem implica de asemenea.

    Referitor la problema dependentilor, ce nu au restrictii pe piata muncii si ce nu necesita certificatul albastru sa confirme acest lucru (asadar nu ar trebui sa intampine probleme la inregistrarea NINO sau interviuri, problema este mai complexa intrucat trebuie actionat pe mai multe planuri simultan:

    1. local - Ambasada (au un reprezentat care isi face treaba bine acolo si este bine informat asupra situatie)

    Mr Bogdan CARPA-VECHE, attaché
    Tel: 020 7937.8125
    Fax: 020 7937.8069
    e-mail: social_affairs@roemb.co.uk

    2. local MPs

    3. Home Office

    Eu nu am fost implicata in acest proces cu certificate, dependenti etc, intrucat am ILR de cativa ani buni, si as avea nevoie de ajutor din partea celor ce cunosc mai bine situatia actuala. Merci :lol:

    DST - David, I know we have discussed this problem in the past, the
    family members of an EEA national exercising their treaty rights in UK can obtain a blue registration, but DONT HAVE TO, it IS NOT a MUST.

    Link below:
    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... omania0408


    7
    The big issue here is that they have difficulties to obtain a NINO and also to prove to their future potential employer that they have full rights to work in UK. They are not claiming benefits, they just want to pay tax and have a decent job !

    As above, I suggested writing to the Embsassy, local MP and Home Office. What would be your thoughts/plan on this long term battle?

    As usual, your help is much appreciated.
     
  17. dst

    dst Member

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    The first thing is to be clear about what the issue is.

    As I understand it, someone is having difficulty getting a NINO even though, as the spouse/partner of a Romanian national that is exercising Treaty Rights, they are entitled to one.

    But is the problem that the office is denying that they have a right to a NINO or is it that they are requiring evidence of the relationship between the two people, and proof that one is exercising Treaty rights?

    The first issue is a policy question, the second an administrative matter. There is nothing unreasonable about being asked to prove you are entitled to a NINO.
     
  18. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    Dst the issue is that a dependant has no restriction to take employement in UK, according to the european and british law. He may obtain a registration certificate only if he want to. These people, in order to be legally employed, need a NINO. Well, they can't get a NINO if they don't show a registration certificate. So it's not enough to prove that you're a dependant if you don't show a registration certificate.
    The issue is not that you have to prove that you are entitled to a NINO, but the fact that you have to prove it only by showing a blue card wich you are not required to have to be able to work in UK.

    Dst problema e ca un dependent, conform legii europene si a celei britanice, nu are restrictii in ceea ce priveste dreptul de munca in UK. El poate obtine un certificat de inregistrare numai daca vrea lucrul asta. Oamenii astia pt a munci legal au nevoie de NINO. Ei bine, ei nu pot obtine NINO fara un certificat de inregistrare. Deci nu e de ajuns sa dovedesti faptul ca esti dependent if nu ai un certificat de inregistrare.
    Problema nu e faptul ca esti nevoit sa demonstrezi ca ai dreptul la NINO, ci faptul ca trebuie sa demonstrezi acest lucru numai aratand acel blue card, blue card pe care nu esti obligat sa-l obtii pt a lucra in UK.
     
  19. dst

    dst Member

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    Indeed, a dependent has no restriction, but their entitlement derives from their relationship to another. If their spouse ceases to be self-employed then the dependent loses their rights to work also. You must never lose sight of this central fact.

    I do believe - and have long argued - that the system is made deliberately complicated in order to deter people from seeking employment. Having the registration certificate does make it far easier, but I have also heard of people who have been able to get a letter from the Home Office which is evidence in its own right for getting a NINO. That one form of evidence is preferred, does not mean that is the only evidence that will be accepted. But this is also an issue of training for the NINO staff. This could certainly be improved.

    The next question here is are some Romanians being stubborn for the sake of it. Yes, you are not required to have the certificate, but if having a registration certificate makes things easier, perhaps getting one is something to consider. The community as a whole might view this as a matter of principle (why should we be 'forced' to get a certificate if we dont legally require one) but individuals perhaps need to be more pragmatic - what matters is getting the NINO.

    If I apply for a job I still have to demonstrate that I am entitled to work in the UK. For this I show my British passport. I could probably show other documentation to prove this as well, but it is easier to do it this way, and I am still required to prove it.

    The issue Romanians are facing here should always be raised with an MP - we want to make them aware of how complex and flawed the system is in order to build pressure to change it - but you shouldnt let resentment and anger at the system get in the way of doing simple things that will make it easier to actually begin work here.
     
  20. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    Dst you are right that their entitlement derives from their relationship to another, and this could be a way to prevent frauds. But are we treated like delinquents from the start?

    And what happens when you have to wait for 2 months or more for a blue card, are they paying your bills in this time(because you have to be in UK in this time), or find you another job if the employer don't want to wait for you to get this card? So in this case, those simple things that will make it easier to actually begin work here, are not that simple isn't it?
     

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