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Rasism impotriva romanilor - sa actionam!

Discussion in 'in Marea Britanie' started by crysya, May 30, 2009.

  1. crysya

    crysya New Member

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    Dragi romani,

    Dupa cum probabil stiti, in curand vor urma alegerile EU.
    Ca multi dintre voi, am primit un leaflet de la partidul UK Independence Party (www.ukip.org).
    Acest partid este impotriva imigrantilor.
    Unul din sub-punctele lor:

    "Massive new pressure on the police. One in seven prison inmates is foreign. ROMANIANS COMMITTED 1080 CRIMES IN LONDON IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS."

    Ma doare stomacul de nervi!
    Trebuie sa facem ceva impotriva acestei discriminari.

    Vreo idee cui ne putem plange impotriva lor?

    Numai bine.
     
  2. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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  3. taranu

    taranu New Member

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    Mda, cam spinoasa problema :D

    Sa stii ca e greu sa te lupti cu prostii, astia au mintea odihnita mereu.

    Cam cat de imbecil trebuie sa fii (daca se poate masura), ca sa participi la alegeri pentru Parlamentul European si sa sustii ca esti impotriva EU ?
    Cam cate banci din UK ar fi ramas in picioare acum fara sprijinul masiv al EU ?

    Partidul shit independence mizeaza pe un scandal doar-doar or avea parte de reclama si in mod sigur si-au facut si calculele: de polonezi nu ne atingem ca ne fac franjuri economia nationala si au antecedente cu reclamatii la CE, bulgarii sunt nesemnificativi, au ramas doar romanii dezorganizati care sa poata fi tinta, iar diplomatia lor este de o nulitate absoluta si pastreaza tacerea (si argintii).

    Partidul rahat sustine doar aberatii, iar scorul lor la alegeri va fi de cel mult un parlamentar.

    Nu am citit fluturasii lor, dar din citatul tau vad doar o statistica care ar putea sa fie reala, ce am putea sa le spunem ?
     
  4. bivo

    bivo New Member

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    Hey ya !

    Discriminarea pe care o face acest partid la adresa romaniilor nu se opreste numai aici...Pe site-ul Partidului este un amplu articolo privind imigratia din Europa de Est si efectele ei...
    We in UKIP do want to tell you what we're standing for, because we can't go
    on like this: locked into an undemocratic club that costs hard-pressed
    British taxpayers £40 million a day and dictates huge areas of our national
    life.

    The most important thing any government does is to defend the borders, yet
    Parliament has given away almost all of our powers to do so away. For
    example, as this newspaper recently revealed, a million Moldovans are about
    to get the right to come here.

    Yes, a million people from the poorest country in Europe will be able to
    come to Britain and there's nothing we can do about it. The President of
    Romania gave them Romanian passports: so they become EU citizens and they
    can come and live here. Remember how well that worked out when we did the
    same for the Poles and the other East Europeans? Millions arrived and it
    doesn't take too many to swamp the ship of state. The President of Romania
    might be a very nice chap but neither you nor I voted for him nor voted to
    give him the power to decide who can live here. More importantly, there's no
    way we can vote against him and no way we can even influence his decision.

    Westminster has also given away the power to decide who can claim asylum. Of
    course we should aid and shelter those who would be killed or persecuted in
    their home countries. But the rules are that those seeking asylum should do
    so in the first safe country they get to: if that's France then France has
    to, yes, has to, offer them help. Not encourage them to migrate to the coast
    to make it easier for them to sneak into Britain. Looking out over Calais
    it's as if the place is twinned with the UK Benefits Office. Even that isn't
    enough for Brussels. Soon they’ll be a new EU-wide system. When a boatload
    lands on the shores of Malta, or a raft reaches Spain, Britain will have to
    take 13 per cent of them. We won't even be able to decide who, they'll just
    be allocated to us. Aren't you looking forward to that?
    What this means to us here is obvious. Immigrants of these various types
    make up 40 per cent of new households. That's a new one every 6 minutes.
    Gordon Brown keeps boasting about jobs created, but they were jobs for
    immigrants: 500,000 in all. Jobs for British workers are actually down
    140,000. We'd like to do something about all of this but can't while we are
    locked into the prison of nations that is the European Union. It's actually
    illegal under their rules for us to favour our own. The only way we can
    change this is if we leave the EU and have British laws for British people.

    This is the heart of what we in the UK Independence Party are arguing and
    fighting for: that British citizens should be the people who decide what
    happens in Britain. That's why we were the only British political party in
    the European Parliament to vote against allowing Bulgaria and Romania to
    join, creating more millions who can come here. It's why we will vote
    against any further expansion, like to Turkey, which will extend the right
    to live here to 80 million more poor people.

    Once we leave the EU we can start doing what we must: having a proper system
    to choose who we allow into our country: people who have the skills and
    qualities to benefit our nation and not those who don't. We could keep out
    foreign criminals, something that at the moment we can't. We might like to
    let in the brave Gurkhas who have already demonstrated that they are willing
    to fight and, if necessary, die for this nation. The reason the Government
    is backsliding over this is simple: they know that we're all concerned about
    immigration and that they've given away almost all of their powers to do
    anything about it. We can't do anything about asylum seekers, we can't do
    anything about millions from Eastern Europe, we can't do anything about
    British jobs for British workers, so let's stamp down hard on the Gurkhas,
    just to show that we're doing something.

    Contemptible isn't it?

    Just for the cherry on top, there's a man in Brussels who decides these
    rules for us. In November 2004 I revealed that a French court found he had
    redirected public funds into the coffers of his party. We've got a man like
    that deciding which criminals can come to our country. The other parties are
    happy for this mess to continue.

    This is what this election can mean: you can tell the political classes what
    you really think, how you want this country to be run. If you want it to be
    run by us Brits and for us Brits then you should vote for UKIP. The other
    parties are happy for this mess to continue. And also consider this: the
    best way to give Gordon Brown a damn good kicking would be to make sure
    Labour comes fourth by voting for UKIP.

    Ei de fapt nu realizeaza ca UK-ul este direct sau indirect dependent de EU...Iar imigrantii au adus intodeauna efecte asupra economiei , nu numai aspecte negative cum cred ei...

    Nu stiu ce sa zic , urat din partea lor , asta imi aduce aminte de referendumul organizat in acest an in Elvetia privind deschiderea pietii muncii pt romani si bulagri...La vremea accea , tot un partid facuse o campanie mediatica foarte intensa , la adresa romaniilor si bulgariilor vazuti ca niste corbi , care vor invada Elvetia pt a fura joburiilor elvetieniilor...

    Toate cele bune ,


    Bivo
     
  5. mircea1980

    mircea1980 New Member

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    Sa le spunem ca atunci cand am fost primiti in UE am fost primiti si cu bune si cu rele.Ma indoiesc ca polonezii,sau toate natiile de pe aici sunt usa de biserica.Sa le mai spunem ca nu toti romani sunt ucigasi si talhari.Si asa ne discrimineaza cu drepturile de munca.Cand am fost primiti in EU ni s-a spus ca vom avea drept de munca.Acum au intors-o cu criza de parca am avut vreo clauza la aderare in care se spunea ca daca va fi criza sau altceva mai stam pe alaturi.sau poate am avut si mai marii nostri au omis sa ne anunte si pe noi.Dar cine sa le spuna? ca mai marii nostri care ar trebui sa ne reprezinte aici si sa lupte pt drepturile noastre sunt ocupati cu orice altceva.Avem conducatorii care-i meritam!
     
  6. taranu

    taranu New Member

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    Tot de pe site partidului rahat:

    POSTED ON APRIL 1, 2009 - BY ABSURDEU
    ROMANIA FULL OF HORSES
    Hundreds of unwanted horses have been left to roam the streets and parks of Romania’s major cities after an EU law which bans horse-drawn carts from main roads.

    Sa-mi spuna si mie un roman neaos cum combate acest articol. Asta in timp ce politistul-model se face ca nu vede caruta de pe drumul national. Ca sa nu mai spun ca unul din cei mai buni prieteni ai mei ramas in Romania acum 4 saptamani a lovit un cal care apartinea unei satre de tigani, iar politistii i-au spus ca pentru recuperarea daunelor trebuie sa dea in judecata pe tiganul respectiv, dar fara sa poata spune cine era proprietarul calului.
     
  7. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    crysya a scris:
    Ok, a adus cineva in atentia ambasadei/ministerului de eterne acest lucru? Macar individual. Of course, ar fi fost frumos sa fie trimisa o instiintare, mai oficiala daca vreti, din
    partea reprezentantilor comunitatii romanesti(una dintre ele). Dar la romani e un proverb cu placintele si razboiul, nu? Cand e de aparut prin poze pe la no 10 sau ambasada, toate-s bune si frumoase. In rest...ramane cum am stabilit.
    Poate scaneaza cineva acel leaflet si-l posteaza aici. Chiar sunt curios si eu cum arata, si poate si cei din ambasada/minister or fi curiosi, caci din turnul lor (de fildes?) e mai greu de perceput realitatea.
    Si pt cine considera ca e doar politica din UK si nu e treaba ambasadei/ministerului, sa arunce o privire peste atributiile ministerului:
    taranu a scris:
    Atat de imbecil cat este nevoie pt a fi ales. Tinta lor nu sunt oamenii(a se citi alegatorii) care pot gandi logic, ci aceia care "gandesc" prin frustrari(british jobs for british people si alte asemenea lozinci).

    Pai, sa le numaram coane Fanica. :laugh: Doua la prefectura... doua la scoala de fete... A, stiu cele care aveau banii plasati in Islanda, nu?:laugh:

    Am mai comentat pe undeva cele 1080 de infractiuni comise de romani in ultimele sase luni. Tentatia e sa fie tradus "crime" prin "crima", sunt infractiuni, daca nu chiar contraventii. Apoi ar fi fost interesant de aflat numarul total al romanilor din UK, numarul total al celor care au facut acele "crimes" si chiar si tipul lor. Dar asta, vai, ar fi demonstrat cumva ca romanii nu sunt toti infractori? Nu se poate asa ceva... Faptul ca vreun naiv are yellow card ca self employed, si a fost descoperit lucrand ca angajat(cunoastem cu totii escrocheriile de genul asta), inseamna ca acel roman "committed a crime"? Oare intre cele 1080 de "crimes" or fi si "offences"?

    Fiind postat pe APRIL 1 de catre ABSURDEU e clar ca e o gluma proasta. Dar te tragi de sireturi cu cine-ti permiti, iar cu Romania se pare ca-si permite toata lumea. Ideea e ca ei se pot apara prin faptul ca e o gluma, insa au fost foarte seriosi cand au postat-o si constienti de reactiile pe care le va provoca aceasta gluma.
    Asa ca revin la ce spuneai tu, ca nu te poti lupta cu prostii. Nu sunt prosti, fac pe prostii cu un scop precis.
     
  8. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    Ok, asteptam in continuare reactii oficiale care implica ideea de COMUNITATE. Inca mai cred ca o pozitie comuna, oficiala, luata de un REPREZENTANT al unei sau altei bucati de comunitate a romanilor din UK, are mai mai multa greutate decat plangeri individuale. Doar ca aceasta pozitie intarzie sa apara...:(
     
  9. crysya

    crysya New Member

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    Eu am citit leafletul destul de tarziu ieri si am vrut sa se stie despre el.
    Chiar ma gandeam sa scriu Ambasadei. Pana acum nu am putut pentru ca am fost plecata de acasa.
    Cred ca ar fi mai bine daca am scrie o Petitie sau ceva de genul asta si sa o trimitem la Ambasada.
    Cred ca rebecca_uk are dreptate: o pozitie oficiala a romanilor din UK ar fi mai indicata.
    Nu stiu cui sa ma adresez ca as face-o.
     
  10. dst

    dst Member

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    Might I add a couple of observations.

    Firstly data is collected by the Home Office about the nationality of those committing crimes, and it is quite easy to get hold off. There is no reason to think that the figure of 1080 is itself wrong. Of course, not all of these crimes will be serious.

    Nigel Farage has spoken some outright lies about Romania - his repeated comment that Basescu has granted Ro nationality to 1 million Moldovans is an example.

    Election literature is subject to very little regulation, so there isnt really an avenue for complaint.

    Why is Romania more apparent in UKIPs comments? Certainly it is intended to play on a stereotype, but there is also a point being made by UKIP about political action - that the UK government did take action to limit the numbers of Romanians coming to the UK, but that the action it took was ineffective. UKIP is attacking the government here, but using a stereotype of Romanians to do it.

    The point here is Romanians are not being targeted for the sake of it, but to make a wider point. That said, it is still a bit disturbing to refer to Romania in this way. However it is I do not helpful to describe this as 'racism'. It is not, and it will discredit your arguments if you do describe it in this way.

    There is very little you can do now with the election only a few days away. There are things the Embassy could and should have done many weeks ago, but it lacks the ability and knowledge to do this.
     
  11. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    How about xenophobia and defamation of a people? Can't they be asked to prove what they're stating there? Are they even allowed to use such arguments in a political campaign?

    Even a little and I still think there should be something done.It's outrageous and appalling.:angry: Better late than never...:)

    Nu pot fi acuzati de xenofobie si defaimarea unui popor? Nu li se poate cere sa dovedeasca cele afirmate? Macar li se permite sa foloseasca argumente de gen intr-o campanie politica?

    Chiar daca e putin, ceva tot trebuie facut.Este scandalos si ingrozitor. Mai bine mai tarziu decat niciodata.
     
  12. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    How about this?

    http://www.opsi.gov.uk/Acts/acts1996/uk ... 60031_en_1

    Defamation Act 1996-I knew I had it somewhere...

    Can't this be used? I really think it can.

    Ce spuneti de asta?
    Legea defaimarii 1996. Stiam ca o am pe undeva...

    Se poate folosi?Eu chiar cred ca se poate
     
  13. Daniele

    Daniele New Member

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    Eu zic ca ar fi un bun inceput in a avea o reactie la cea ce se intampla. Cred ca timpul sa fim mai uniti - ei nu se asteapta la o reactie deosebita din partea noastra - asta e si motivul pt care si-au permis.:eek:hmy:
    Daca lucrul asta nu e considerat rasism, sincer mie mi-e foarte greu sa gasesc alt cuvant pentru. Eu cred ca ar trebui sa facem o plangere in care sa mentionam toate punctele in care suntem afectati ca urmare a acestor afirmatii. Si ar fi un inceput sa ne dea de stire toata lumea care e dispusa sa semneze plangerea. Eu si sotul sigur semnam.

    Si in cazul in care nu avem succes aici - cred ca Uniunea Europeana ar avea o atitudine mai intelegatoare - mai ales ca nici pe ei nu ii impresioneaza cea ce se intampla aici (sunt o gramada de alte tari care au fost de partea noastra mai mult, in general - Franta de exemplu). Chiar daca nu se mai poate opri campania - e totusi necesar sa isi ceara scuze publice. Si trebuie sa demonstram ca putem lua atitudine, cand e nevoie.

    Cine e dispus sa semneze plangerea?
    Si aduceti argumente in legatura cu efectele negative - e necesar sa mentionam cat mai mult.
     
  14. dst

    dst Member

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    rebecca_uk a scris:
    Xenophobia is not an offence, it is an emotion. Where exactly is the defamation? The number of crimes committed by Romanians is probably factually accurate, all UKIP are doing is highlighting this.

    They may well be exploiting a fear/dislike of Romanians, but this pre-exists. There is no defamation here.

    There is no requirement to be able to prove political claims, the most you can do is try to rebutt the statements made by airing an alternative view. This is nothing to do with the law however.

    The Embassy could write a letter to UKIP. It will have no effect The only result is that it will allow the Embassy to say "we have written a letter, we are looking after Romanians". They need to develop a sustained and co-ordinated campaign of action. Maybe one day they will.
     
  15. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    However,I for one would like to see proof of these 1080 crimes. Am I (or anyone else)not entitled to see such proof? And if so, how?
     
  16. dst

    dst Member

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    rebecca_uk a scris:
    The specific figure of 1080 refers back to 2007 and was obtained by channel 4 news using a freedom of information request.

    http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/s ... els/820447

    The data is not centrally published (i.e. different forces collect the details in different ways and report back to the Home Office is such a way that it is not compiled by nationality) but I know that the Metropolitan police (London police) in Operation Golf specifically tracked crime associated with Romanians and Bulgarians.
     
  17. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    From 2007 to 2009 it's not exactly six months, is it? Why are they using these data for the on-going campaign? It's not fair and it shouldn't be tolerated.
     
  18. dst

    dst Member

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    rebecca_uk a scris:
    The data was for a 6 month period in 2007, not for 2007-2009, and it is the only period for which they have data available.

    It might not be pleasant, but it is politics.

    A response comes down to whether there is enthusiasm to mount a long term campaign against such things. One off gestures have very little impact. There needs to be sustained and organised action.
     
  19. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    Ok, fiecare dintre noi poate cere explicatii ambasadei si ministerului de externe. Insa are cineva scanat acel pliant? In care sa scrie negru pe alb de romani si de acele infractiuni? Fara acea dovada latram la luna. Se pot cere explicatii si partidului in cauza. Sa specifice sursa informatiei, numarul celor care au comis infractiuni, nu numai cel al infractiunilor(asta poate demonstra ca e o problema in cadrul politiei), numarul infractorilor raportat la numarul total al romanilor...
     
  20. kitsul

    kitsul New Member

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    Un nou rand din capitolul:

    "Cainii latra, caravana trece".

    Pana la urma de ce ne mai pierdem vremea?

    Cine i-ar baga in seama ca si partid? Probabil vreun englez ratat care toata viata lui nu a trait decat din ajutorul social pentru care a platit pana si imbecilul, pardon, .. infractorul de roman care s-a chinuit sa traiasca aici cu statut de self-employed.

    Acel ratat, cu nationalitate comuna partitudului va motiva ca oricine altcineva/altceva (in afara de el) e de vina pentru situatia in care se afla de cand a prins si el putina inteligenta.

    Partidutul facut din rahat englezesc mizeaza tocmai pe ratatii respectivi sa obtina si ei niste voturi.

    Ce pozitie sa iei impotriva lor? Daca ar fi facut oficial de Amabasada, pot sa pun pariu ca nu ar reusi sa faca nimic. Nu ar putea sa le schimbe pozitia si nici nu ar reusi sa ii determine sa trimita un leaflet cu Drept la Replica. De fapt, orice s-ar face impotriva lor ar putea sa ii ajute tot.. pe ei! Orice forma de scandal sau declaratii impotriva lor... le-ar face doar reclama. Si eu ii urasc pe multi din englezi. Pe altii ii iubesc. Imi sunt cei mai buni prieteni. Dar,... cu dezechilibrati sau dezaxati nu ai cum sa te pui.

    Cum ai putea sa determini PRM-ul romanesc sa inceteze cu declaratiile murdare la adresa maghiarimii in fiecare din ocaziile date, care nu fac decat sa instige la ura. Totusi, pe mine nu m-a determinat sa imi urasc vecinii unguri si nici sa incetez prieteniile cu ei. Nici pe ei sa ma urasca fiindca sunt roman. Cred ca o similaritate poate fi gasita si in declaratiile si situatia creata aici de Partidul lui Peste.

    Cat despre unitate romaneasca, cum poti sa o ai cand romanul fuge de roman si tot pe roman sapa mai tare?

    Despre ce unitate vorbim cand unii se pun sa scrie in engleza pe un topic inceput in limba romana? Personal, inteleg engleza, dar cred ca e de bun simt sa vorbesti limba care se foloseste in acel moment intr-un loc dat. E interesant ce a scris, dar totusi de ce sa nu dam sansa romanilor care nu inteleg engleza bine sau deloc sa priceapa si ei poluarea aceea de caractere? Daca topicul era scris doar in engleza, eram perfect de acord cu folosirea ei ca limba. Acum, daca vrem sa ne dam romani deosebiti ... ii invit pe ceilalti membrii sa posteze si in franceza, italiana, spaniola, maghiara sau chiar rusa.

    Trebuie sa mai treaca timp, sa uite lumea de noi ca fiind 'acei' membrii noi din UE, acei membrii vai-ce-saraci (fals). Astfel, nu cred ca se va mai lua nimeni de noi. Imigratia e ceva normal intr-un stat capitalist.

    Ca partid, e ridicol.. dupa cum mai spunea cineva,... totusi - UK, datoreaza foarte mult UE.

    Inca odata au decupat fragmente dintr-un peisaj, pe care mai apoi le-au distorsionat la maxim ca doar-doar tot vor obtine ceva.

    Putem sa le transmitem din partea imigrantilor romani in UK un sincer si traditional F@k Off!
     

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