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Evaluarea regimului aplicat cetăţenilor români pe piaţa muncii din Marea Br

Discussion in 'Ambasada' started by admin, Aug 9, 2011.

  1. robcos

    robcos New Member

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    Si totusi, se ajunge pe langa subiect. Imi cer scuze daca va ofensez si va asigur ca nu intentionez sa atac pe cineva, dar speram ca sa nu ajungem la o atitudine mioritica din nou. Cand spun mioritica, ma refer fix la faza cu ciobanasul care pune mainile pe piept si se caineaza, la aflarea vestii ca ii vor ceilalti raul. Cred ca cei ce vor merge la aceste discutii trebuie sa simta ca merita sa se lupte cu morile de vant. Repet, imi cer scuze daca se simte cineva jignit, insa cred ca discutia trebuie sa fie mai "tehnica", in sensul gasirii de argumente. E bine sa stim de ce vor britanicii sa mentina restrictiile, ca sa putem sa combatem. Daca va iesi ceva, e perfect. Daca nu, macar stim ca s-a facut auzita si vocea oamenilor, nu doar cea a politicienilor care se lauda ca ne reprezinta.
    Revenind la topic, cred ca Ellaws are dreptate. Trebuie puse pe masa discutiilor cat mai multe materiale pozitive. Articolele din presa sunt foarte bune, fiindca reprezinta ceva palpabil. Discutiile principiale sunt ok, dar va asigur ca dupa ce se pleaca de acolo, ele nu vor avea forta unui dosarel. Cel mai greu de combatut va fi considerentul ca trebuie protejata forta de munca locala. Insa, daca luam la rand activitatile economice in care romanii si bulgarii nu pot patrunde pe baza de carduri colorate, raman totusi putine locuri de munca ce pot fi protejate. Cred ca aici este solutia: sa le demonstram inutilitatea restrictiilor si sa incercam sa transmitem public acest fapt. Cu sau fara carduri, romanii vor veni in uk.


    Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk
     
  2. parker

    parker New Member

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    Nu s-au prelungit.

    Transitional restrictions on workers from Bulgaria and Romania (3 June 2011)

    Current immigration restrictions on nationals of Bulgaria and Romania are due to be reviewed by the government. Under the provisions of the Treaty on Accession, those restrictions may be continued until the end of 2013 in the event of serious labour market disturbance.

    To feed into the government's review, the MAC has been asked the following question:

    'Is there a serious disturbance, or threat of such a disturbance, to the UK labour market and would maintaining the existing restrictions on Bulgarian and Romanian nationals' access to the labour market assist in addressing any such disturbance or threat?'

    The MAC has been asked to report to the government by October 2011. The MAC will not issue a formal call for evidence on this question, but will seek input from certain individuals and bodies with an interest. In addition, the MAC will be happy to receive, and will consider, written views on this matter.


    http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/about ... odies/mac/
     
  3. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    Cateva lucruri de luat in calcul:

    Migration Statistics Quarterly
    Report August 2011
    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171778_223724.pdf

    Cum ar putea fi destabilizata piata muncii cand s-a atins cel mai scazut nivel din 2004 in privinta migratiei in cautare de job-uri?

    pag.2 a raportului
    Unde e influenta romanilor daca din 2004 nivelul imigratiei ramane constant? Romania a aderat la EU (libertatea de miscare) in 2007.

    Asadar, democratii au castigat alegerile(ca tot vorbim de motivatii politice) cu una dintre principalele lor arme: imigratia si cum o vor reduce. Se vede treaba ca in perioada decembrie 2009 – decembrie 2010 (mare parte guvernare a conservatorilor) e nesemnificativa variatia (reducerea imigratiei) cetatenilor non EU conparativ cu decembrie 2008 – decembrie 2009(guvernare laburista). La fel in perioada iunie 2010 – iunie 2011 comparativ cu iunie 2009 – iunie 2010. Sa facem precizarea ca cetatenii EU (inclusiv romanii) n-au nevoie de „entry clearance visas”, in virtutea dreptului la libera circulatie. In momentul in care apar dezechilibre pe piata muncii, conform tratatului de aderare, trebuie sa reduci migratia non EU nu sa prelungesti restrictiile pentru cetatenii EU (fie ei din noile state membre) – cetatenii noilor state membre sunt mai presus decat cetatenii non EU(macar in contul milioanelor de Euro cu care Romania contribuie la bugetul Uniunii).

    No comment. Probabil ca si in situatia acordarii mai multor vize de lucru muncitorilor non EU tot romanii reprezinta pericolul pentru piata muncii.

    Un calcul sumar si oarecum aproximativ: 705.000 NINO intre martie 2010 –martie 2011 minus 187.000 acordate cetatenilor A8 in aceeasi perioada fac 518.000. Daca scadem numarul celor cu „entry clearance visas for work and study” pe perioada iunie 2010 – iunie 2011 (de aici aproximatia) adica 516.568 ajungem la un fabulos numar de 1.432 de NINO acordate (atentie!!!) cetatenilor; romani, bulgari, ciprioti si maltezi(Cipru si Malta, desi au aderat tot in 2004 nu sunt cuprinse intre statele A8). In fine, chiar daca ar fi 1.500 de romani care au primit NINO incerc sa-mi dau seama care e pericolul pe langa celelalte sute de mii.

    Si cine are curiozitatea poate studia raportul in detaliu.

    Pe cei ce fac comparatia cu Spania i-as ruga sa se uite pe urmatoarea statistica (asta nescuzand „luarea pe nepregatite” a autoritatilor romane):
    http://epp.eurostat.ec.europa.eu/cache/ ... -BP-EN.PDF
    Intre o rata a somajului de 7.8% si una de 21.2% cred ca e totusi o diferenta mai mare decat relatia aritmetica dintre doua cifre.

    Ok, in final decizia sunt convins ca va fi tot una politica, dar daca s-ar putea face ceva in timp ce noi spunem: „n-are rost, ca decizia a fost luata…"?
     
  4. parker

    parker New Member

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    Cateva idei in plus.. chiar daca documentul este un pic mai vechi (2007) ideile raman, mai ales daca sunt prezentate in combinatie cu cifre mai recente.

    http://www.official-documents.gov.uk/do ... 7/7237.pdf

    pag. 24
    5.4.6 Foreign-born from Romania & Bulgaria (94 per
    cent).. have higher employment rates than UK-born
    workers (76 per cent).


    pag. 9
    2.2.6 In the long run, it is likely that the net fiscal
    contribution of an immigrant will be greater
    than that of a non-immigrant.
    For migrants
    of working age who enter the country this is
    relatively clear; the UK is receiving the fiscal
    contribution of their work, without paying for
    the education and training that enables them
    to work.


    pag. 20
    5.2 Why do employers want to hire migrants?
    5.2.1 The best source of data in this area is a report
    commissioned by the Home Office which
    conducted in-depth interviews with employers
    in order to produce a qualitative survey.
    ..
    5.2.2 The overwhelming majority of employers across
    sectors and regions started to recruit migrant
    workers because they could not get applications
    from domestic workers for low-skilled jobs.

    In some cases employers noted that a greater
    proportion of applications were from foreign
    nationals, possibly because they are more mobile
    than UK nationals, who may limit their job
    search to the local labour market.
    5.2.3 Nonetheless, the report also found that, in some
    areas, employers preferred migrant workers to
    non-migrant workers for a number of reasons
    listed below.
    Reliability

    5.2.4 Native workers sometimes proved unreliable in
    certain sectors, especially Agriculture and Hotels
    and Catering, which makes a business diffi cult
    to run. Some employers had tried recruiting
    applicants via a Jobcentre, but found that they
    sometimes turned up for interviews purely to
    get a form signed to enable them to receive
    Jobseekers’ Allowance.
    Skills/labour shortages
    5.2.5 In Construction, where employers were seeking
    skilled workers, the recruitment of migrant
    workers was directly related to skills shortages.
    Polish workers were generally valued in London,
    where they were seen as highly-motivated skilled
    workers who could fi ll a skills gap.
    5.2.6 One employer in the Finance and Accountancy
    sector said that there was only a very small
    pool of qualified applicants in the UK. The
    employer used headhunters who could recruit
    internationally and took the best-qualifi ed
    candidate.
    5.2.7 In lower-skilled jobs, the issue was,
    unsurprisingly, a shortage in the supply of labour
    rather than skills. This supports the notion that
    migrants are fi lling jobs that natives will not do
    rather than competing for the jobs that they will.
    Other positive attributes
    5.2.8 Only a minority of employers thought there
    were no particular advantages to using migrant
    workers, other than that they were available.
    The majority cited a range of positive attributes.
    The ones most frequently mentioned were:
    • Reliability;

    Willingness to work hard. This was sometimes
    defi ned in terms of migrant workers’
    productivity and speed. But it was also related
    to their willingness to work long hours, beyond
    the normal working day. Several employers
    also mentioned that migrant workers actively
    sought overtime to earn extra money;
    General attitude to work. Sometimes
    employers referred to the work ethic, or said
    that they were motivated and keen. Less
    often mentioned, but underlying some of the
    comments, was the fact that migrant workers
    were more likely to be satisfi ed with the
    minimum wage;
    • Some employers also mentioned lower staff
    turnover.

    Other survey evidence
    5.2.9 Two other recent surveys confirm that business
    sees migration as a good thing for the UK
    economy. A survey conducted by the Institute
    of Directors (IoD) in December 200639 found
    that three-quarters of IoD members supported
    the view that migrant workers made a significant
    positive contribution to the UK economy. This
    fi nding was mirrored in a similar study by the
    British Chambers of Commerce (BCC), also
    undertaken in December 200640. Both surveys
    indicate that business focuses on migrants’ skills,
    higher productivity and better work ethic, rather
    than lower wage costs.
    The IoD survey reported
    that migrant workers can significantly outperform
    the existing workforce in terms of productivity,
    education and skills, work ethic, reliability and
    the amount of sick leave.
    The BCC survey found
    that less than 6 per cent of employers employed
    migrant workers because of the potential for
    lower wage costs.
     
  5. ELLAWS

    ELLAWS New Member

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    Lightplay, -bravo-

    Prima mea reactie a fost asta... -dragoste- si m-am uitat la profil sa ma asigur ca nu esti barbat sa intelegi alte-alea...

    ai prins PERFECT ideea -felicitari- mai ai timp daca doresti... sa-ti confirmi participarea la dezbaterea publica... fiind si de-acolo, din Londra... si-apoi sunt o groaza de baieti... si doar 3 fete... hai sa le-aratam ca si noi fetele avem ceva de spus... -da-da-
     
  6. administrator

    administrator Administrator Staff Member

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    Un mic update din partea Ambasadei:

    Asadar, participam si la aceasta intalnire?

    Va rog sa construim aici lista cu cei care pot participa!

    Multumesc!

    Admin
     
  7. parker

    parker New Member

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    Ellaws, merci pentru aprecieri - e "deformatie" profesionala (si academica de altfel, am terminat sociologie) :) Nu inteleg insa la ce dezbatere publica te referi, eu m-am oferit voluntar pentru discutia cu cei de la MAC, daca se va face o intalnire.

    silverfern, migratia neta din EE a crescut in ultimul timp.

    The latest quarterly figures to June 2011, published by the Home Office yesterday, should show these changes starting to have an effect, and indeed there is a slight fall in people coming from outside the EU for work (down 2.7% compared to the year ending April 2011), almost all in Tier 1 rather than Tier 2. This fall is offset, however, by a rise in those coming from outside the EU to study (up 3.5% compared to year ending April 2011).

    More significantly, any reduction in numbers coming from outside the EU is likely to be offset by the continuing rise in those coming from inside the EU, particularly from Eastern Europe – a category of immigration which the Government cannot control.

    Yesterday’s figures show that immigration from Eastern Europe rose from 52,000 to 71,000 in 2010 – and emigration back to Eastern Europe fell from 47,000 to 31,000, adding further to overall net migration.

    In terms of the number of Eastern Europeans in work – as opposed to new arrivals – recent Labour Force Survey figures confirm that, after being stable between 2008 and the first quarter of 2010, numbers have been rising steadily since the election:

    http://www.ippr.org/articles/56/7909/do ... mmigration
     
  8. silverfern

    silverfern New Member

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    lightplay, imi pare rau ca nu ma pot concentra indeajuns asupra acestor cifre si rapoarte in momentul de fata. Ceea ce am dorit prin postarea link-ului catre acel raport si prin evidentierea unor date din raport, a fost sa ii fac pe membrii comunitatii noastre sa se implice in dezbatere, sa studieze raportul, sa vina cu puncte de vedere care ne-ar putea sustine cauza (pentru ca cei ce considera ca deciziile au fost luate, sau ca nu merita efortul au loc sa se desfasoare in sectiunea discutiilor libere de pe forum). De asemenea ar fi recomandat ca cei ce vor sa contribuie sa vina cu rapoarte, statistici si studii oficiale, nu cu articole din ziar (din motive lesne de inteles).

    Admin, eu personal iti multumesc pentru transmiterea catre membrii comunitatii a acestor mesaje. Sper sa aprecieze gestul tau si ceilalti. Ceea ce insa nu mi-e clar, si cred ca sunt multi altii in aceasta situatie, e ce fel de marturii, ce fel de dovezi ar fi necesare celor de la MAC. Cred ca acest lucru ar trebui evidentiat in update-urile din partea Ambasadei: sa fie indrumati/invatati oamenii catre anumite situatii, detalii, pe care sa le prezinte si care ar putea cantari decisiv in aceasta evaluare.
    Pana atunci poate reusim sa extrage impreuna cateva idei din raportul anterior cu privire la Bulgaria si Romania(stiu ca e lung cat o zi de post, dar poate ne trezim putin din amorteala): http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... iew=Binary
     
  9. administrator

    administrator Administrator Staff Member

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    Multumesc, Silverfern.

    Asadar, ce facem, participam? Daca da, cine se ofera?
     
  10. Dan

    Dan Administrator Staff Member

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    Tare as vrea sa merg si eu.
    Promit ca vin data viitroare.. daca va mai exista o data viitoare.

    Astia de prin zona, nu va duceti? Ratati sansa sa va vedeti cu factoru de decizie?
    Va credeti in Romania? :)))
     
  11. ELLAWS

    ELLAWS New Member

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    Exact asta a spus si Silverfern, el a sustinut cat a putut interesele romanilor, a contribuit cu informatii, a oferit consultanta, tradus/interpretat legi, a incurajat si-a fost mereu alaturi de membrii comunitatii noastre, DOAR ca un lucru nu i se pare corect ca el sa vina de la o asemenea distanta sa reprezinte comunitatea romana din UK, in timp ce sunt mii de romani la Londra si prin imprejurimi, capabili si in masura sa reprezinte interesele comunitatii noastre.

    Chiar si in situatia in care eu m-am oferit sa-i platesc drumul, Cata i-a oferit cazare 1-2 saptamani...refuza sa vina, pe considerentul ca nu ai cu cine sa faci treaba... Si lucrul asta s-a dovedit a fi adevarat DIN NOU!!...

    Incredibil!!!... Am lipsit de pe forum 3 zile, nici nu credeam ca n-o sa gasesc aici o lista deja, cu macar 4-5 oameni (desi Admin a spus ca e loc pana la 20-25)

    Oameni buni, mai sunt 2 zile... ce-i cu tacerea asta???
     
  12. nico300775

    nico300775 New Member

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    as dori sa vin si eu(mai trebuie sa stiu data ,ora si locul) nu stiu cum va pot ajuta(poate prezenta scenica si numerica) dar ca si voi ma lovesc de aceste principii ale lor care nu le pot intelege. cum sa vrei sa muncesti intr-o tara unde anumite posturi sunt descoperite total si tu nu te poti angaja? oare cum intr-o tara democrata un cetatean cinstit care doreste sa traiasca si sa munceasca are restrictii doar pt ca politicul are influienta prea mare? oare cum e posibil sa ai 15 ani de activitate in tara unde ai platit taxe si impozite si nu iti vor si aici banii din taxe si impozite doar ca muncesti? doresc sa lucrezi la negru si sa nu platesti nimic? ei ce cistiga? ca totusi exista si munca la negru,toata lumea stie!
    doresc sa fiu tratat ca om nu ca un animal asta trebuie remarcat!!!

    statisticile sunt partea pe hirtie sau calculator care o vad ei dar ei nu vad realitatea.
     
  13. sapanta

    sapanta Active Member

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    nico, dupa s-au trezit cu juma de milion de polonezi nu e asa simplu... estimasera 100k din toate tarile

    ei nu interzic accesul, doar ca este controlat prin faptul ca trebuie obtinut dreptul de munca, AWCul, samd

    problema apare la faptul ca un angajator va prefera uneori pe altcineva care poate incepe imediat, decat sa aplice / astepte samd
     
  14. administrator

    administrator Administrator Staff Member

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    Buna,

    Trimite-mi te rog numele si numarul de mobil pe adresa de email: admin@romani-online.co.uk

    Detalii eveniment:

    1 Belgrave Square
    London, SW1X 8PH
    United Kingdom

    Vineri 16/09/11
    15:30

    Voi fi acolo incepand cu ora 15:00


     
  15. parker

    parker New Member

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    admin, data e corecta?

    Adica intalnirea cu cei de la MAC este vineri 16 septembrie peste nici 2 zile la ICR, sau e vorba doar despre o intalnire preliminara cu cei de la ambasada Romaniei?
     
  16. administrator

    administrator Administrator Staff Member

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    Detaliile postate de mine sunt corecte, ne intalnim cu cei de la MAC vineri 16 septembrie ora 15:30 la 1 Belgrave Square.

    Daca mai vrea cineva sa participe sa-mi trimita email la admin@romani-online.co.uk cu numele complet si nr de telefon.
     
  17. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    Mda...anapoda.

    Eu am mutat o meditatie si anulez si ora de condus. -trist-

    'Lightplay' poti sa ma suni, te rog?

    Cred ca multi din cei care ar vrea sa mearga nu vor putea.

    Vom vedea.
     
  18. parker

    parker New Member

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    Eu chiar as fi vrut sa vin dar e in timpul serviciului si ar fi fost OK daca as fi stiut macar cu 3-4 zile inainte sa imi aranjez programul, 1 zi notice e cam din scurt :(
     
  19. Deanna

    Deanna New Member

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    Wow! FELICITARI VALI! Uite ca m-a ascultat Doamne Doamne (sau s-a "gresit" ceva in ecuatia spatiu-timp:)si au inceput si romanii nostri instruiti si cu bun simt, sa aiba noroc de joburi decente. Ma bucur nespus de mult pentru tine, da-i inainte cu jobul, las ca se descurca ceilalti cu politica.

    Pentru mine va rog sa cereti asa:
    -Sa nu mai existe parcari cu plata pt. lucratorii romani si prietenii bulgari
    -La JobCenterPlus s-angajeze numa' pakistanezi, ca parca-i inteleg mai usor (ma rog, uneori:))
    -iar de Craciun, cei in cauza sa-si prezinte scuzele in scris, ca iar n-au facut nimic pt. noi!

    Cheers!!! -limba-
     
  20. rebecca_uk

    rebecca_uk Active Member

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    Ce-ar fi sa vii chiar tu, Deanna?

    Si ceilalti care vor 'sa cerem ceva pt.ei'

    Chiar nu gasim oameni care nu au ce face vineri dupa-masa tocmai pt. ca nu au drept de munca in UK sau sunt respinsi de oriunde te miri pe orice motiv?

    Daca merg eu si Admin pana acum, cam cat credeti ca am putea reprezenta din cei aprox. 750000 romani din UK?

    Chiar nu intelegeti ca trebuie sa fim uniti ca macar sa ne bage in seama?
     

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